Suspension & Aero Nerds I Need You

"Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru" (matt-powershiftmedia) 08/03/2019 at 12:41 • Filed to: Mitsubishi Mirage, Mitsubishi, Project Car, Project, Tracklopnik, Track, Aerodynamics, Suspension, Suspensionolopnik

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So I’ve gone completely mad like the idiot that I am. I’ll be buying some BC coilovers and RPF1s for the Mirage soon. I’m wrapping those in some aggressive Advan tires. I’m seeing my car has a solid torsion beam rear suspension. I’m wanting to add about 2 degrees of camber to the front and a bit in the rear to try to get the rear to rotate a bit under throttle lift.

Is there any way to dial camber in to a solid rear suspension?

Also I’m looking to add some downforce to this thing. I’m going to be adding some pass through diffusers to the rear bumper. I’m throwing some front dive planes/canards to the front bumper and going to try to make a front splitter adapt.

Basically this car has zero downforce and I want to improve it.

What measures would you guys take? 

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 12:54

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Start researching dangerous banned F1 technology. 

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 12:55

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Torsion beam rear suspensions are usually non adjustable outside of shimming it for “small” adjustments.  What year is your mirage by the way?

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 08/03/2019 at 13:03

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It is a 2017

AestheticsInMotion > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 13:04

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Aren’t these a bit... er r... Tippy? Maybe some spacers would be in order to get a wider track. I'm assuming you're going wider tires/wheels too? 

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 13:08

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https://mirageforum.com/forum/showthread.php/4907-Rear-Alignment-Problem-FAQ

I went looking for shims and this popped up on Google.

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > AestheticsInMotion 08/03/2019 at 13:12

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They have a higher roof line and a monster truck ride height stock. But with a CVT weighs only 2140 pounds.

The idea is to lower it about 2.5” and the stock wheels are 5” wide on 165s. I’m going with 7” wide and 205/50/15 advans. The stock suspension is also extremely soft. 

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 08/03/2019 at 13:13

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I’d read that one and had a sad face. Didn’t know if anyone had ideas on adjustment. My veloster had the same twist beam suspension but after adding my mods it was an animal in autocross. 

AestheticsInMotion > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 13:15

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You’re making me feel lame for putting 205/50/15's on my 8" wheels.... The 225's have shit tire selection 

Right on, can't wait to hear about this! How's the cvt? Does it give you power when you need it? 

facw > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 13:18

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Loo sen your lug nuts a bit, that will let the wheels self- camber. Prototype your aero in cardboard so you can see what it feels like before you order custom parts.

gettingoldercarguy > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 13:34

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Add camber to the front (camber bolts screw up geometry less than camber plates) , don’t worry about the rear. Zero toe f+ r. Play with tire pressure and look for a rear adjustable sway bar.

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > AestheticsInMotion 08/03/2019 at 13:42

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The CVT isn’t horrible but it’s not the best. It’s phenomenal for economy. It’s the same Jatco unit in the Juke so my research shows it’ll handle about 198 pound feet of torque. It holds the power around 4500 under WOT, meaning it would be great for boost.

Nah don’t feel lame lol. I’d go wider but 205 is a tight fit I had to research a lot on offset. I may roll fenders and go wider down the road. 

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > facw 08/03/2019 at 13:44

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Not a bad idea! Thank you for this! 

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > gettingoldercarguy 08/03/2019 at 13:45

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I’ll have a rear sway bar, torsion bar and structural brace on the way shortly.

I figured toe should be zero. I’d like to add as much caster as possible. 

gettingoldercarguy > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 13:52

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Yeah, that’s good too. Y ou’ll probably want to bump steer the car with that much of a drop.

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > gettingoldercarguy 08/03/2019 at 13:54

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How does one do that.

I’m a drag racer. This will be a first serious attempt at taking a very poor handling car and making it surgical. 

gettingoldercarguy > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 14:04

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http://www.longacreracing.com/technical-articles.aspx?item=8162

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > gettingoldercarguy 08/03/2019 at 14:08

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Thank you so much 

gettingoldercarguy > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 14:09

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No problem, longacre is a great company.  I was stoked to see they are out here in the PNW when I moved here.

NYankee1927 > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 15:11

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How is the camber related to getting the car to rotate under throttle lift? Set your camber to optimize your tire wear and temp profile . Set your toe to manage rear end on turn in.

sony1492 > AestheticsInMotion 08/03/2019 at 15:41

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245 fits an 8"

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 15:58

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Shimming the rear hub is the way to add a bit of camber on such a rear suspension, assuming anyone makes shims for that application.

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > gettingoldercarguy 08/03/2019 at 16:00

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Very good reading indeed!

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > NYankee1927 08/03/2019 at 16:01

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It’s a well known technique to adjust the rear camber on a fwd to do many things such as getting heat to the tires and making the rear end more apt to rotate. 

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 08/03/2019 at 16:02

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If they’re not made I suppose I’m fabricating them haha. If it doesn’t exist I’m going to have to make it exist. 

NYankee1927 > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 19:09

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I get the heat part. But camber achieves a correct temp profile across a tire, maximizing its ability to provide grip. I don’t understand adding camber to help it rotate, usually toe does that. I suppose you could continue to add camber until the tire is riding on its inside more resulting in sub-optimal grip

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > NYankee1927 08/03/2019 at 19:38

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That’s the idea behind it :) 

NYankee1927 > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru 08/03/2019 at 23:29

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Why don’t you just over-inflate the rear tires? Tire pressure can have a much larger effect on handling than people realize. 

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > NYankee1927 08/04/2019 at 08:06

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That’s actually really smart. Valid point. 

Future Heap Owner > NYankee1927 08/04/2019 at 23:16

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Hmm... by how much do you think?

Future Heap Owner > facw 08/04/2019 at 23:17

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That sounds super scary to me. But I am known for my risk aversion.

NYankee1927 > Future Heap Owner 08/04/2019 at 23:35

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Hard to tell. I’ve never run those tires before. It also depends how on the edge and how balanced the car is now. I’ve had a single psi be the difference between happy neutral and tail happy. 5 psi hot temp is usually enough for it to be a handful on either end. But it all depends how close to the edge of grip you are.